Ancient Greeks favoured homosexuality not because they were oh so tolerant but because they were misogynists and believed you should only have sex with women for the sake of procreation and lesbians were banned can everyone please stop glorifying that now Please
Point One: All Ancient Greece Is One Land Mass and Lesbians are Illegal
Lesbianism Illegal now? Does Sappho not exist suddenly? With her moving poetry describing her ardent passions for other females?
With lines of her imploring Aphrodite and Aphrodite responding “Again whom must I persuade/Back into the harness of your love?/ Sappho, who wrongs you?/ For if she flees, soon she’ll pursue;/ She doesn’t accept gifts, but she’ll give;/ If not now loving, soon she’ll love/ Even against her will.” - Sappho, fragment 1 voigt.*
*Homosexuality in Greece and Rome: A Sourcebook of Basic Documents edited by Thomas K. Hubbard
Sappho was a celebrated poetess, honoured and referenced even through Roman times. To claim that her love was illegal is historically inaccurate.
Are you talking about Athenian Greece now? The place where we have most of our written heritage from? Because to say “Ancient Greeks” is to lump some warring city states with different cultures together into one lump some. It’s like claiming the people in Australia are exactly the same as people in the USA because they both speak English.
Yes there is underlying misogyny in Ancient Athens. That existed but to make some claim that women had no agency would be entirely wrong. You are erasing women from history with this post, you are ignoring the evidence we have of ancient women. An excellent book I suggest is Dangerous Gifts: Gender and Exchange in Ancient Greece by Deborah Lyons an esteemed Professor at the University of Miami. Check out her profile.
In this book she discusses the role of women as protectors of the house, protecting family as well as lineage and the Ancient Greek male anxiety over this role. Where woman was both outsider but home maker (she had two allegiances to her natal family and husbands family.) An example Eriphyle accepting a necklace from her brother Adrastos and in so doing betraying her husbands family. (You may be more familiar with stories like the Bacchi or Oedipus Rex where male anxiety concerning female agency is expressed.)
Now then, how does Sparta fit into this misogynistic view point? When women ran property and consentingly had sex with persons not their husband in order to produce strong healthy Spartan children? Are you going to claim that consenting women producing children is oppression now? :/ Sparta is VERY DIFFERENT from Athens, but they are still considered Greek!
Now then point two: Ancient Greeks as Paedophiles
There is much lively academic debate about this.
One of my favourite resources concerning this topic is The Greeks and Greek Love by Professor James Davidson. This book was published in 2009 so is fairly recent well researched academia where he challenges notions of paedophilia as we would consider it in our modern age.
Really to be quite frank here even the most extreme of classicists posits the age of an eromenos at the age of twelve, someone on the cusp of puberty. To say the whole point of pederasty is to have sex with a bunch of young boys by a group of perverted of old men is historically inaccurate and does the Ancient Greeks a great disservice.
I will focus on Ancient Athens here since, as I stated before, that is where much of our sources come from. (Too bad we don’t have more for Thebes or Elis or Corinth!) There were strict social norms to be followed, which if broken led to shame. As Ancient Greece was a shame culture, in which family honour was very important, this was a big taboo. The pursuit of a young man meant also educating him in politics and the larger aspects of becoming a man, which sex was a part of it. Davidson posits the age to be around 17 or 18 for an eromenos due to quoting laws in different aspects of Athenian society such as when certain age groups are allowed to have access to the gymnasia since certain age groups were not allowed to mix due to anxiety of certain persons perhaps abusing the system. Young men were escorted everywhere to protect them from predators. (Sort of like a group of young girls are today in some societies to protect them from asshole men.)
In fact the Ancient Athenians thought the Ancient Spartans were insane because in Sparta the young men mixed in different age groups - which led to Athenians saying all Spartans were perverted homosexuals! (Which is wrong, the Spartans just had a different way in structuring their society, which was totally weird to the Athenian viewpoint.)
tl;dr The above statements concerning Ancient Greeks as paedophiles, and lesbian suppressors is wrong. The misogyny is taken out of context and does not apply to all Ancient Greek societies.
I should note that I am currently a Classics Honours student planning to graduate next April.
we’ve taught girls to romanticise nearly everything a boy does. when i was younger i thought it was cute that boys chased the girl even after she said no. i loved it when after a girl moved away from a kiss, the guy would pull her back and force it on. i thought a guy saying ‘i won’t take a no for an answer’ was passionate and romantic. we’re literally always teaching girls to romanticise abusive traits.
girls don’t care about boys
girls care about useless lesbian vampires and ginger bio majors
This is the cutest thing I’ve seen ever
He totally thought wednesday could lift him i’m dead
Honestly she probably could have.
The Addamses may well be the healthiest, most functional family unit to ever grace the small screen.
I will never not reblog this.